The Legacy of James Jesus Angleton
By Yoichi Shimatsu
The first point on the White House checklist concerning the whistleblower should be to issue a Presidential Order for all documents, records, fingerprints, photos, school records and personal information, including a DNA sample from one Eric “Ciarametta” (all of these should already be in the CIA employee file, but need double-checking) to ascertain his actual identity and family links.
To evade suspicion over Eric’s swarthy complexion inherited from his biological father, a notorious Sikh guru in the employ of James Angleton, the Brennan-Comey plotters are likely to insert an Italian-American step-brother in his stead. While writer C.J. Ciarametta with Reason magazine, who also sports a Sikh beard, is known in New York circles, the third brother is a cipher, whose photo image has already been posted online in the stead of the adoptive Eric “Ciarametta’ Khalsa-Angleton.
This precautionary measure must be taken due to the disgruntlement of thousands of Eric’s heavily armed Sikh co-believers, both of Indian and Caucasian descent, already angered by a federal court’s recent ruling against corruption and fraud by the Sikh-run Akal Security, which is headquartered in Espanola, New Mexico, the same desert community where Cicely Angleton, wife of the Cold War spymaster, served as covert-operations liaison to Sikh guru Harbajan Singh Khalsa, the cut-out between the Agency and Khalistan secessionist radicals at the Golden Temple in Amritsar, located in the Punjab region of India.
Failure to conduct an investigation and heighten security could well open the doors of Congress to a bloody raid or terrorist bombing, much like the events that led to the bloody siege of the Golden Temple, which was followed by the retaliation murder of Indira Gandhi by two of her Sikh bodyguards and then the Sikh terrorist bombing of an Air Canada jetliner that killed more than 300 passengers, mostly Canadians along with Indians on a trans-Atlantic flight. If anything similar is launched by disgruntled Sikhs, for example the bombing, nerve-gassing or arson against the congressional Capitol building or the White House, the Democratic leadership will have rivers of blood on their hands from such a dark plot, which would have some similarities to the assassinations of Presidents Abraham Lincoln and William McKinley. After all, the treacherous McCain-type Southern Rite Masons, founded by Albert Pike; ultramontane Catholics of the James Angleton ilk, and their financial backers in the Rothschild cabal are still active in the great game against the American constitutionalist system. Be warned and take counter-measures or suffer a checkmate.
The Angleton Deviance
The CIA’s Khalistan independence project carved out of India may seem fantastical, so skeptics should just look it up at online history websites. While I can recall the siege of the Golden Temple clearly, the intelligence war behind the failed uprising has been declassified by Indian intelligence only recently. As exposed in the first chapter of this ongoing series, the whistleblower is a radical Sikh, likely blood-related to CIA spymaster James Jesus Angleton through one of his two daughters who joined the 3-HO ashram in Espanola, New Mexico, founded by tantric Sikh guru Harbajan Singh Khalsa, a CIA asset who served as a bridge between Angleton and the terrorist Khalistan secessionist movement.
Following his removal as chief of counterintelligence by CIA director William Colby, Angleton continued in his other role of hatching overseas black ops spun off from Operation Gladio, including the Bologna station bombing that killed 80 civilians, the explosion assassination of Lord Mountbatten, the Brighton Hotel blast warning to UK Prime Minister Maggie Thatcher for her refusal to engage with the CIA-sponsored Provo IRA in Northern Ireland, the UNITA barracks detonation that blew apart dozens of Cuban and Soviet advisers in Angola; his abortive attempts to revive the Tibetan insurgency, and infamously the joint CIA-ISI plot behind the Sikh insurgency against Soviet-allied India.
These macho-man operations hatched by the elderly Angleton showed his determination to “go out with a bang:”, even if it meant sacrificing the innocence of his young daughters to the clutches of a sex-maniac Sikh guru in New Mexico. His character disorder of avoiding anything as subtle as diplomacy both reflected and tainted the American intelligence services, for reasons discerned from the spymaster’s troubled marriage.
Deep-secret liaison with the Sikh terrorist operation was conducted by the CIA official’s wife Cicely Harriet Angleton nee d’Autremont, who was pressed into service as an “off the ledger” courier for her eccentric husband. Being a wealthy heiress from a mainstream Protestant family, she was desperate to maintain the appearances of a conventional marriage. This feigned posture was necessary to her elite family’s status and reputation during Senator Joseph McCarthy witch-hunt. The Vassar graduate, poet and historian of the Cathar movement (Gnostic heretics suppressed by a Vatican crusade in the Carcassone region of southwestern France), had much to hide from the prying eyes of the self-righteous Joe McCarthy and probing by J. Edgar Hoover into foreign intelligence affairs. Heterosexuality was in that less than tolerant era a bridge for foreign spies to blackmail gay lovers as a means to access top secret documents.
On their introduction, Cicely had been instantaneously drawn to Angleton’s angular facial features, which she favorably compared to the gaunt beauty of emaciated male figures in the paintings by El Greco. For the rich girl from Duluth, the bright young diplomat was a trophy husband to boast about to her idle rich friends. Inexperienced at sexual matters, she mistook his effeminate behavior for aesthetic sensitivity instead of what it actually meant, homosexuality at a most degrading level. No less than his father, Col. Hugh Angleton had advised her not to marry the errant lad, probably out of fears of a ruinous high-society scandal. (This is the story that Henry James should have written instead of “The Golden Bowl”, which implies much of the same fear of scandal.)
Then, during the Battle of Britain, Angleton was assigned as an OSS liaison officer seconded to the British MI-6 spy agency in London. Angleton fell, plummeted, and plunged into the dark-gravitational orbit of MI-6 strategist Kim Philby, a leading spirit in the notoriously gay Cambridge Circle. Phlby, Burgess and McLean taught him the ropes of flagrant homosexuality and the rough trade. (These notorious double agents for the Soviets defected to Moscow’s public urinals, probably to prevent the emerging CIA from pointing the finger to their don, Sir Anthony Blunt, the upper-crust confidant of the House of Windsor, including Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
“We just didn’t know each other anymore,” Cicely wrote back then with pathos. “Jim was wishing we were not married, but he was too nice to say it. He thought the situation was hopeless. He was all caught up in his career. It was exactly what his father (retired Army colonel Hugh Angleton) had warned us about in 1943. Jim no longer cared about our relationship, he just wanted to get back to Italy, and back to the life he knew and loved. He didn’t want a family. The marriage seemed to be annihilated then and there.”
In the prim and proper parlance of that post-Victorian era, her statement and his father’s warning indicated that James Jesus Angleton was a barely concealed homosexual, thrilled by older male attention and eager for perversity, including cross-dressing aka transvestism. His powdered face was standard make-up for effeminate boy actors in the role of women, ever since the Elizabethan era stage-craft at The Globe and aboard pirate ships and Royal Navy vessels plying the Caribbean. The Russell Crow naval movie “Master and Commander” makes reference to being “taken from behind”. A powder puff also covered over the skin tone inherited from his Mexican mother.
Another thing that Angleton brought back across the pond from London was the habit of always being nattily attired in a bowler hat, long overcoat and a walking stick. For the Ivy League recruits of the OSS and its successor CIA, Angleton came off as the impeccably polished master of the game, even though his sophisticated techniques and glam style were mere sleights of hand learned at MI-6 from Q, who’s otherwise known as Master Bates.
Back to Basics
In spite of his lapses, in marital affection, the couple reconciled in postwar Rome. There, her wealthy parents owned a magnificent villa. (Her mother had inherited a share of the fortune of the d’Autremont merchant family of Duluth, Minnesota). The lure of a wood-paneled study of his own with a view of the garden restored a semblance of family life, resulting in the overdue birth of their son and two daughters. Becoming a father was in all probability a tactical maneuver by the swishy spy under suspicion from the watchful eye of Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who was rooting out liberals-turned commie queer Soviet double-agents inside the State Department and its auxiliary departments.
Fear of public exposure of his homosexuality, more than any other factor, accounts for Angleton’s extreme macho brutality in clandestine operations throughout the Cold War. This sort of double life has been a bonding factor among the clubby OSS and CIA executives from elite Catholic families, in a reflection of the covered-over male pedophilia of their father confessors. A similar covert double-life in the Muslim realm also explains the CIA-linked Obama administration’s overnight “pajama boys” and their rough-trade in Turkey and Syria, these being bonded within six degrees of separation from James Angleton and Kim Philby, head of the Arabic wing of the British spy establishment. After his romance in London, Angleton finally understood that Arab maxim, “Take a woman to procreate heirs and a boy for pleasure”. For career advancement, he had to impress the White House by showing up to church with wife and kids in tow. His homosexual legacy, however, had deleterious effects on the nation’s intelligence services.
Pizza gate Pederasty
The vociferous denial of Pizza gate allegations into official man-boy pederasty under the Obama regime have only served as further proof of the existence of a closet “gay mafia” running the Democrat Party and those chicken hawk deviants with the pro-war wing of the GOP. Tough talk covers the mushy lack of a moral center. This tendency was perversely reflected in the lesbianism exemplified by the Hillary-Huma affair, straight out of the Orientalist harem. Instead of the sacred bond of husband and wife, Angleton’s half-hearted effort at holy matrimony was just a thin cover, a beard, to get congressional approval for appointment to executive posts in the spy agency. Only a uncaring self-serving careerist could supply his pre-teen daughters to a perverted Kundalini yoga guru.
The guru’s progeny, the gay Democrat whistleblower, is what’s called in British terminology a “bum boy”, or as put by Rush Limbaugh “just one of the pajama boys in the Obama White House”. Excuse the judgmental language, but frank (I don’t mean Barney) discussion is the first step toward reforming a pathological political system lacking moral standards necessary for representative governance in a popular democracy.
Face it, the only “serious violation” by the impeachable president is to be a normative heterosexual, as demanded in the New Testament injunction to “let no man render asunder what God has joined together” (Mark 10:9), which in its historical context warned against the flagrant homosexuality as practiced and promoted by the ruling Hellenistic Greek conquerors of the Israelites. Why’ is it that no one never told you that in church? Go figure. Thanks to the good graces of those charming ladies Ivana and Melania, the president still drives on the right side of the road, though he’s been known in the past to pick up fetching hitchhikers.
This digression into sexual politics should expose what impeachment is really about, a desperate ploy by the gay-lesbian mafia to keep their stranglehold on government. (For more lurid details. see my article on Adam Schiff’s best buddy relationship with Ed Buck, the serial sex-murderer of black males). Try to recall what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, an empire destroyed by its own incorrigible perversions. No, I am not a fundamentalist nor give one hoot about sexual orientation, other than to prevent a queer caste like those catamites known as the Mamelukes from taking over the imperium.
It was the naive Cicely so determined to please her husband in order to maintain the facade of a happy marriage who introduced her two pre-teen daughters Truffy and Lucy, to the pedophile Sikh guru Harbajan Singh Khalsa. As accurately foreseen by the queer spymaster, the cult leader fell from grace with the splat of an overripe apple, leading his Sikh followers deeper down the slippery slope into the CIA clandestine operation against the Soviet-leaning Congress Party of India. As discussed in my earlier article on this subject, the underage Lucy Angleton was impregnated by Khalsa on his death bed or perhaps administered artificial insemination via an Agency-linked doctor, to birth Eric Angleton-Khalsa “Ciaramella”, whistleblower and heir apparent to the Sikh-CIA terrorist network. This is much like how the Yemeni CIA operative Osama Bin Laden and his army of jihadists was inducted into terrorist service against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and later Chechnya.
If CIA sponsorship of a philandering Sikh pedophile trainer of Kundalini sex-yoga seems bizarre, it’s been standard practice since the late 1950s to involve mysterious Asian cults in covert weapons-and-demolition training for guerrilla operations and to establish terrorist cells during the Cold War. Master-to-acolyte transmission of hidden doctrine during perverse coitus nearly always does the trick of ensuring the secrecy of covert operations. Under the MK-ULTRA program as publicly promoted by the Frankfurt Institute, the heady combination of sexual freedom, psychedelic drugs and poetry babble encouraged white American youths to abandon their career goals and surrender their will to the whims of CIA fakirs.
Among the more notorious promoters of brainwashing through seduction was that CIA puppet in Boulder, Colorado, the “Tibetan cowboy lama” Chogyam Trungpa tulku who openly engaged in Tantric copulation with his drug-addled followers of both sexes and was himself an alcoholic and cocaine addict who succumbed to liver cirrhosis and HIV. Scandalously, one of his disciples died of AIDS transmitted by the guru. Religious groups are generally immune to lawsuits in contrast with federal agencies, so if a project goes off the rails, just walk away. Agency case officers had no accountability when every setback can be blamed on the enemy.
Heretical New Age cults spun off from Asiann religions served as storefronts for CIA clandestine ops to suck in depressed suicide-prone volunteers for guerrilla warfare training with the 10th Mountain Division at Camp Hale in the Colorado Rockies, and then onto the “graduate school” for murder and mayhem, the Special Operations Group (SOG) training ground at Camp Schwab, Okinawa. During the 1960s, these pathological fanatics were dispatched to the Mustang region along the Nepal-China border, where the squabbling “freedom fighters” killed far more fellow Tibetans than any of their battle-hardened Chinese foes.
Some of my sojourns in that region is shown n the video “The Flight of the Karmapa”, but there’s no mention my being chased by a posse of 200 blood-drinking CIA-trained Tibetan outlaws after discovering their secrets of ritual killings of trekker tourists, art theft from Buddhist temples, and gold smuggling, with a cut of the profits going to that CIA crash-dummy known as His Holiness the Dalai Lama. There was a tall tower of ram skulls waiting for my head to join them, but my horse outraced their stallions, moving us on to other fish to fry. Neither did I mention on another video “Prayer Flags” the CIA threats at Everest Base Camp, old-style demonology that I chased away with an ice axe. If any of those hostile fools happened to fall into a crevasse, it wasn’t my doing, sad to say.
The Ukraine whistleblower’s biological father Guru Khalsa played a central role as a CIA intermediary to the Sikh terrorist groups in India that later assassinated India’s President Indira Gandhi. The executive action, so resonant with the dead Kennedys, was in spiteful retaliation for her orders to India’s Special Forces to storm the Golden Temple at Amritsar in June 1984, killing more than 80 rebels and tossing hundreds more into no-exit prisons, thereby spoiling Angleton’s wet dream of illuminatti glory.
The CIA-sponsored Sikh rebellion against Soviet-allied India was planned and prepared by the CIA-allied Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI), which provided arms and weapons-training for militant Sikh rebels. Some 1,000 Pakistani spies were infiltrated into the Indian Punjab to reconnoiter military facilities and police posts. After separatist factions took control of the Golden Temple in early 1984 as the future capital of their secessionist nation of “Khalistan”. President Indira Gandhi ordered her crack troops to proceed with Operation Bluestar. A final ultimatum was issued to the rebels to lay down their arms and surrender or else face overwhelming firepower. The rebels, being Sikhs who believe in a deathless eternal spirit, felt certain about defeating the Indian Army on holy ground or die for the independence cause. After repelling the first attack with grenade launchers, the Indian Army called in tanks against the sandbagged temple and so the fanatics ended up getting slaughtered in droves.
Within a year, amid Sikh protests across India and worldwide, including resignations in protest by government officials, two presidential bodyguards of the Sikh faith gunned down Mrs. Gandhi, to the shock of the world community. This blowback of an attempted grand slam did not especially harm the latter-day career of James Angleton, who had botched dozens of covert operations around the world. He was simply retired out of active operations. His legendary status among Intel groupies like John Brennan, longtime CIA agent Joe Biden, and the CIA’s Russia gate script-writer Nellie Armstrong Ohr, the wife of that Korean-American FBI counterintelligence agent “Brue Ohr” remains intact. Such true believers are simpletons and retards unable to comprehend the geopolitical calculus.
Never Say Sorry
Contrition for the Gandhi assassination never materialized, with the lips-sealed CIA-ISI alliance against a Russia-allied India continuing to the present, with the installation of Pakistani ISI agent Khizer Khan into the 2016 DNC nomination on stage with Hillary Clinton and her running mate Tim Kane, and the spy operation against the House of Representatives by the Pakistani Awan family of computer hackers hired by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her Zionist colleague former Rep. (Boca Raton) Robert Wexler. India is merely a pawn, and willing one at that, a habit instilled by Mughal cultism and British colonialism.
At a personal and professional level, I have no qualms about the ISI, whose officers were extremely courteous to me before and immediately after 911 during my reporting on Kashmir and the Afghan border situation immediately before and during the U.S. bombing and invasion of Afghanistan. Old-style hombres and rugged Pashtun warriors have a lot in common, being aficionados of extreme contests and well-aged Scotch whiskey. Their operations against neighboring India in the Punjab and Kashmir are motivated by geopolitical issues rather than sinister motives based on egotism.
If the ISI professionals can be compared with fine hounds at the chase or well-disciplined guard dogs, the CIA by comparison are foaming at the mouth pit bulls with no purpose other than to attack indiscriminately for the sheer pleasure of bloodshed. So there is zero ethical condemnation on my part toward the Pakistani or Indian intelligence professionals, this being a violent universe rationally reorganized by their game of geopolitical chess.
As an aside, allow me to suggest that Sikh assassins should be included on the short list of suspects in the murder of DNC data Chief Seth Rich, a subject to be followed up in the months ahead. In advance, my apologies to you gentlemen in turbans, since you might be troubled by the nature of this game. I’m pleased to meet you, thanks to your whistleblower’s fame.
The CIA’s Quid Pro Quo
Known for their turbans, beards and personal daggers, the Sikhs who’ve migrated to the U.S. in the wake of the Army of India assault on their Golden Temple in 1985 has since created, under CIA auspices, a billion-dollar company called Akal Security, which has relieved Army soldiers and National Guard personnel from protecting the gates and checkpoints of core U.S. government facilities and federal courts. Akal’s subdivision Coastal International Security (CIS) has provided armed guards for 25 U.S. military bases, including USAF Air Force fields with nuclear-capable facilities, for example, Ellsworth AFB (South Dakota), home field of the 28th Bomber Wing flying stealth B-1s and the 28th Medical Group in charge of nuclear, chemical and biological warfare (NBC).
The Akal Security center coordinates operations with the CIA, including the clandestine operations desk, from its offices at 2012] Corporate Road, Mc Lean, VA 22102. Democrats, including House intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff, must be quite aware of the terms of agreement under the Khalsa-Angleton compensation arrangement, now overseen by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), for transport and “protection” of illegal migrants and other border-crossers, including drug traffickers. How hypocritical is it then that the Democrats are advocating human rights for illegal migrants, criticizing detention facilities and agitating for open immigration. Just admit the facts, you scoundrels, about taking kickbacks from the Golden Temple private security arrangement as opposed to increased border deployment of ICE, the Border Patrol and National Guard.
The Sikh security company, employs thousands South Asian religious fanatics, who lacking English-language proficiency, are poorly trained and financially exploited besides being brain-washed. Where did they all come from? The left-liberal Service Employees International Union (SEIU) is much more forthright about Akal’s non-union sweatshop, judging from these excerpts from its Stand for Security website:
“Akal Security, a privately owned security company, has a long and concerning track record of investigation, litigation, and settlement around fraudulent business practices. In 2011, Akal Security disclosed in a lawsuit that it was party to 134 threatened, pending, or current litigation matters, including allegations of pay and labor regulation violations.
“Part of this troubling record included a coordinated investigation by the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice and the Office of Inspector General into Akal Security’s subsidiary Coastal International Security. The claims concerned violations under the False Claims Act and the Federal Procurement Integrity Act that Coastal/Akal Security defrauded the State Department during performance of a security contract and later concealed that fraud, and civil allegations that the company improperly obtained and used competitors’ pricing information to underbid competitors on government orders. Coastal/Akal Security agreed to pay a $1.65 million settlement to resolve these criminal and civil allegations.
“Further accountability issues included Akal Security paying an $18 million settlement over a False Claims Act lawsuit that alleged the company failed to train employees at Fort Riley Army base in 2007. In 2010, two Akal employees stepped forward with information alleging similar problems as part of a contract for courthouse security that Akal held in northern California. A subsequent two-year Department of Justice investigation resulted in a $1.8 million settlement. Akal allegedly fired the officer who brought the initial allegations to the DOJ and was ultimately forced to settle with that officer in 2014.”
Thank you, SEIU, for explaining why unionization is needed to protect American working people on the job from these fraudulent criminal outfits funneling in unskilled immigrant labor and absconding with taxpayers’ money.
Payoffs to Terrorists
Obviously a major task for Eric at the National Security Council was as a flak-catcher and fixer for his father’s herd of Sikh co-believers. In this light, his whistleblower complaint in defense of the CIA was probably done in a quid pro quo for Agency advocacy against a ban on government contracts for Akal Security, now that their intrinsic value as anti-Delhi terrorists has declined with improved U.S.-India relations. From the Bay of Pigs to the Gulf of Tonkin, Black Hawk Down to the Golden Temple, American taxpayers have been stuck paying the bills for the CIA’s human detritus.
Akal Security corporate headquarters is located on the outskirts of Santa Fe at 7 Infinity Loop, Espanola, New Mexico, the site of the Sikh Kundalini Yoga ashram founded by Guru Harbhajan Singh Khalsa, the biological father of CIA whistleblower Eric “Ciamatta”. Akal means “deathless and infinite”, indicating the proper spirit for terrorists on suicide missions. Also the word implies that His Sublime Excellency Khalsa is alive and well on Kundalini Cloud Nine with a hundred pre-menstrual virgins, or perhaps happily reincarnated in the shape of his CIA grandson hoping for a coup d’état in the USA, now that Khalistan off the menu. So in addition to violent terrorism, the other crime of these Sikh militants is treason against their adoptive country in addition to their native India. My, what a messy imbroglio that the clever James Jesus Angleton left on our back porch!
The Parting Shot
Adam Schiff, “ are you still awake and aware of this devious violation of federal rules by your pretty little whistleblower’s extended family”? Perhaps you should be giving him a spanking inside that Standard Hotel in West Hollywood. Don’t forget how Ed Buck taught you how to inject the meth into your young partner’s quivering manhood.
Jim Angleton, in his final years, kept on rolling the dice and losing chips. The Sikh bombing of Air India over the Atlantic that killed more than 300 passengers and crew, mostly Canadian citizens, was one of his last covert ops. With the British dominion of Canada under attack, Maggie Thatcher and the Queen drew the line. James Jesus Angleton passed away peacefully less than two years later although his spirit still walks the streets of Rome beckoning to ISIS mastermind John Brennan, Russia gate author Nellie Ohr, the Mephistophelean Maltese professor Joseph Misfud, the Cambridge-seated Stephan Halper, the late Sen. John McCain, that snake of an Italian PM Matteo Renzi, and one Eric “Ciarametta” aka Khalsa-Angleton the Whistleblower from the CIA closet. It’s a circus, all right.
Given the incoherent misdirection worthy of Abbot and Costello (who’s on first?), White House officials and law-enforcement agencies must ascertain the whistleblower’s identity, by examining fingerprint correlation and iris recognition to avert impersonation by a substitute individual, while also tracing back his affiliations with the Sikh terrorist network. His testimony will undoubtedly reactivate the Khalistan militant fanatics now that a law court has pulled their plug on security contracts with the federal government and the Pentagon, and also because the Sikh almond and walnut groves in California’s Central Valley are dying from heavy-metals poisoning from contaminated irrigation water. Dealing with Mexican arsonists and mass murderers is enough of a threat to homeland security, and so a repeat of the Sikh airliner bombing has to be prevented thorough counterintelligence in the national interest, with the sort of gumshoe detective work that Angleton despised as beneath his divinely ordained mission.
Although I’ve never had the honor to shake hands with the legendary James Jesus Angleton, his devoted clandestine ops agents used to congregate at the Tokyo American Club where I’d sip on a Blood Mary after the previous night’s research forays into the Ginza to discuss the upcoming yen-dollar rate with elite Finance Ministry bureaucrats through a night of heavy drinking. To kill time on the weekend, I’d chat with the Yank spooks about world hot-spots. Since these memories would not be compromising their children and grandchildren, I recall how once an excitable CIA clandestine ops agent gleefully suggested that we go outside and toss grenades into the crowds of shoppers to stir things up. My head rolled back in laughter even though that risked having my throat cut.
Angleton’s CIA was a jolly bunch of naughty boys, the sort who tied firecrackers to a cat’s tail to see what happens, they being homicidal psychotics and homosexual freaks. Those were the good old days of the Cold War, a passing moment in time when any lie would do and higher death toll was a reason for promotion. Since then, the rules have changed and now the stay-behinds and overlooked remnants must be taken out in a golf-cart or on a gurney, either way not being much of a difference after all things are considered.