{"id":50231,"date":"2016-09-25T06:05:32","date_gmt":"2016-09-25T10:05:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/stateofthenation2012.com\/?p=50231"},"modified":"2016-09-25T06:06:10","modified_gmt":"2016-09-25T10:06:10","slug":"seven-countries-in-five-years","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stateofthenation2012.com\/?p=50231","title":{"rendered":"Seven Countries in Five Years"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript of Interview Between General Wesley Clark and Amy Goodman [Excerpt]
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We\u2019re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.<\/h2>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Retired General Wesley Clark revealed to Democracy Now\u2019s Amy Goodman in 2007 the ambitious imperial plans of the Bush-Cheney inner circle.<\/p>\n

Clark is a former four-star general. He served as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the conflict in the former Yugoslavia.<\/p>\n

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[AMY GOODMAN]
\nDo you see a replay in what happened in the lead-up to the war with Iraq — the allegations of the weapons of mass destruction, the media leaping onto the bandwagon?<\/p>\n

[GEN. WESLEY CLARK<\/a>]
\nWell, in a way. But, you know, history doesn\u2019t repeat itself exactly twice. What I did warn about when I testified in front of Congress in 2002<\/a>, I said if you want to worry about a state, it shouldn\u2019t be Iraq, it should be Iran. But this government, our administration, wanted to worry about Iraq, not Iran.<\/p>\n

I knew why, because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9\/11. About ten days after 9\/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz<\/a>. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff<\/a> who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, \u201cSir, you\u2019ve got to come in and talk to me a second.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re too busy.\u201d He said, \u201cNo, no.\u201d He says, \u201cWe\u2019ve made the decision we\u2019re going to war with Iraq.\u201d This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to war with Iraq? Why?\u201d He said, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d He said, \u201cI guess they don\u2019t know what else to do.\u201d So I said, \u201cWell, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?\u201d He said, \u201cNo, no.\u201d He says, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.\u201d He said, \u201cI guess it\u2019s like we don\u2019t know what to do about terrorists, but we\u2019ve got a good military and we can take down governments.\u201d And he said, \u201cI guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.\u201d<\/p>\n

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan<\/a>. I said, \u201cAre we still going to war with Iraq?\u201d And he said, \u201cOh, it\u2019s worse than that.\u201d He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, \u201cI just got this down from upstairs\u201d — meaning the Secretary of Defense\u2019s office — \u201ctoday.\u201d And he said, \u201cThis is a memo that describes how we\u2019re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.<\/a>\u201d I said, \u201cIs it classified?\u201d He said, \u201cYes, sir.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, don\u2019t show it to me.\u201d And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, \u201cYou remember that?\u201d He said, \u201cSir, I didn\u2019t show you that memo! I didn\u2019t show it to you!\u201d<\/p>\n

[AMY GOODMAN]
\nI\u2019m sorry. What did you say his name was?<\/p>\n

[GEN. WESLEY CLARK]
\nI\u2019m not going to give you his name.<\/p>\n

[AMY GOODMAN]
\nSo, go through the countries again.<\/p>\n

[GEN. WESLEY CLARK]
\nWell, starting with Iraq, then Syria and Lebanon, then Libya, then Somalia and Sudan, and back to Iran. So when you look at Iran, you say, \u201cIs it a replay?\u201d It\u2019s not exactly a replay. But here\u2019s the truth: that Iran, from the beginning, has seen that the presence of the United States in Iraq was a threat — a blessing, because we took out Saddam Hussein and the Baathists. They couldn\u2019t handle them. We took care of it for them. But also a threat, because they knew that they were next on the hit list. And so, of course, they got engaged. They lost a million people during the war with Iraq, and they\u2019ve got a long and unprotectable, unsecurable border. So it was in their vital interest to be deeply involved inside Iraq. They tolerated our attacks on the Baathists. They were happy we captured Saddam Hussein.<\/p>\n

But they’re building up their own network of influence, and to cement it, they occasionally give some military assistance and training and advice, either directly or indirectly, to both the insurgents and to the militias. And in that sense, it’s not exactly parallel, because there has been, I believe, continuous Iranian engagement, some of it legitimate, some of it illegitimate. I mean, you can hardly fault Iran because they’re offering to do eye operations for Iraqis who need medical attention. That’s not an offense that you can go to war over, perhaps. But it is an effort to gain influence.<\/p>\n

And the administration has stubbornly refused to talk with Iran about their perception, in part because they don’t want to pay the price with their domestic — our US domestic political base, the rightwing base, but also because they don’t want to legitimate a government that they’ve been trying to overthrow. If you were Iran, you’d probably believe that you were mostly already at war with the United States anyway, since we’ve asserted that their government needs regime change, and we’ve asked congress to appropriate $75 million to do it, and we are supporting terrorist groups, apparently, who are infiltrating and blowing up things inside Iraq — Iran. And if we’re not doing it, let’s put it this way: we’re probably cognizant of it and encouraging it. So it’s not surprising that we’re moving to a point of confrontation and crisis with Iran.<\/p>\n

My point on this is not that the Iranians are good guys — they’re not — but that you shouldn’t use force, except as a last, last, last resort. There is a military option, but it’s a bad one.<\/p>\n

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